Meet the Author! Researcher Dr. Erin Kaplan

This summer's Ms. Behavior book club features Dr. Erin Kaplan's dissertation How Student Conduct Process Impacts Students Sense of Belonging. We'll we've got the author herself discussing her groundbreaking research and highlighting key findings. Colette and Dr. Kaplan explore how scholarship itself can transform student affairs practices.

Register for the "Just Desserts & Dissertations" book club and start reading today! 

Don't forget to register today for the Ms. Behavior summer book club "Just Desserts & Dissertations." Sign up to receive details and your free copy of the selected dissertation at https://luma.com/jbr2vw2s.

Follow us for updates:
YouTube Channel
Instagram: @MsBehaviorCollege
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ms-behavior-podcast
FB Page: Ms. Behavior
Threads: @MsBehaviorCollege
Tik Tok: @MsBehaviorCollege

Theme music "Fuzzball Parade" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello and welcome to Ms. Behavior. This is Colette, your host, going solo today. Kurt is hard at work, and we couldn't wait to get our favorite author to come talk to us, Aaron Kaplan. Dr. Kaplan, congratulations and welcome. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here today. We were so excited by our conversation with you a few months ago when you were telling us about your dissertation. And then I got to sit through your defense, which was amazing. And now I've gotten my hands. I I've said on the podcast a few times I wanted to get my dirty hands all over your dissertation. And now I'm almost at the end of chapter four. And Aaron, it's just fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Chapter four is so fun because it it tells our story, right? Like the work we do matters. That's my thing about chapter four, is those quotes, like it could have been double the length. That the things that the students said, like, did it make you feel like I knew my work mattered, but now a random student with a pseudonym is saying that my work matters to someone that they have no need to lie to?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

I felt like I was getting such sage advice from these students. Uh, one of the things we're doing at my college this year is really being more intentional about finding partnership opportunities with students. And I feel like your dissertation. So let's tell everybody who people who might be new to the podcast, um, what your dissertation is about and um the nature, the qualitative nature of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Oh, sure. Um, so I conducted a qualitative study on the connection between student conduct and sense of belonging, um, really to find out does student contact student conduct um impact or influence sense of belonging, whether positively or negatively? And uh in my experience, people outside of the conduct world were kind of like, what? Why would student conduct do something good? Don't you just like yell at the students? But um with my inner circle people, with with student conduct professional friends, the name was actually the secret outcomes of the student conduct process because we all know um what it can do. So I interviewed 17 students at I think 11 schools um uh across the East Coast, north to south, all to the um east of the Mississippi line. And it was a pretty even split between privates and publics. And I had a lot of different things. I I had R1s, um, I might have had some IVs, that kind of thing. Um, but all four-year institutions, privates, publics, and 17 students shared their story for better or worse about how the student conduct process impacted their sense of belonging.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

So, Aaron, we didn't just find inspiration in this work, but we actually started a book club for the Ms. Behavior Podcast that is going to happen on July 16th. And we already have lots of people registered. So if you're listening, there's still room to get in. It's called the Just Desserts and Dissertations Book Club, and we're reading Erin's dissertation. You can just click the link in the um podcast information to register. It's free professional development, but I am reading it like a summer book right now. I actually find it kind of suspenseful. I promised myself I would only read 10 pages at a time, and I couldn't like I couldn't help myself from binging it.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

That's that's very kind. You're making me want to read it. I mean, I've obviously read it, but like I haven't read chapter one through five once published all the way through. Maybe I should read it.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

I think you should read it like a book. And uh we I we inserted into the beginning of the dissertation a little note that I had seen you gave a friend about which chapters you thought were the most interesting. I found the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

On that email, anyone who signed up who reads, you know, who receives the different dissertation will see that the first page Kala inserted is me saying what's interesting and what's not. That is real casual and unfiltered, but I think I think chapter four is really exciting. And then chapter five is like, wow, I'm inspired. What do I do now? No spoilers. Well, chapter five is known as recommendations and what's not. So, like, if you're inspired by chapter four, you're gonna want to read five. If you are not interested by what you read in four, then I don't know, maybe don't read five.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

My all my margin notes are my own version of chapter five of things I want to do from what I've read. Uh, just thing changes I want to make, things to look at a different way. Um, I think you should write a a sequel and have your own model of student conduct, Erin. It's this the dissertation for me should be uh required reading for folks in our field.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Thanks, Calette. I will say for anyone who's thinking about doing this, you know, it's really hard. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's really, really, really hard. And recently someone said to me, I don't really want to do it, but I wonder if it'll give me job advancement. And I just said, like, unless you really want to do it, you shouldn't do it because it's really hard. But at the same time, if anyone's like, I don't know about research, I've never done research, that was me. I would say, how you'll pick your topic is it will find you. So I was really presenting about and writing about this topic for many, many years, right? Like I was in ASCA Reflections in um uh October 2019, writing about what I called it was relationship building and rapport within the conduct process. And I wrote about two students at a previous institution who had really significant conduct outcomes and needed to leave the residence holes and things like that, and how we developed really good relationships and how they both graduated with just such success stories after all that, right? And like people were interested in that. So then for many years, I was presenting at ASCA and regional and local student affairs conferences on educational sanctions that really are relationship-based. So I was seeing this before my eyes, and colleagues said, like, oh yeah, I tried this, I tried this, it worked, it didn't work. So when it was time to pick a topic, I knew I was really interested in sense of belonging. And I don't want to say they said it couldn't be done, but and I don't really know who the thing is, but certainly like it hadn't been done before, right? And and that's the thing. Like, when people say, like, we're so glad you finally did this, like, I don't feel groundbreaking. I more feel like, why didn't we have someone do this sooner? Right. Um because retention, you know, with the enrollment cliff and mental health and and the inflation and finances and all of the things, there's just been so much research on, you know, high impact practices. And we all know that like living in the residence halls, positive outcomes, attending orientation, having a job on campus, going abroad, all of those things. And on some levels, I understand why no one looked at conduct, right? It's a negative, it's a negative thing and you didn't sign up for it. But, you know, I know a lot of our colleagues in the field say it's sacred work, it's intimate work, those private conversations. Like, why would we not give those things a chance to hold on to students and really pull them in? So I would just say if you're nerding out about something, if you write about it, if you present about it, if you're talking about it on all of your ASCA Zooms, like that's how you know you have a topic when you can't stop talking about it and you want to use it to tell a story. So it really found me in that way. And I'm glad that people are feeling like it is a valuable contribution to the field.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

We need to get it into people's hands. I think it could have profound impact on what they see as priorities in their work. Uh and especially in the summertime, is that's when folks do a lot of their strategic thinking and code updates. And uh I just think scholarship should be an important kind of keystone to that work.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

And you're making me think about just like the idea of back to basics. Like I know um you and I have been in the field a long time, um, you longer than me. Um, I don't want to pretend I have as much wisdom as you, but I know you and I are two people who were always looking up theories and refreshing ourselves and things like that. And just this idea of going back to basics, and I don't just mean in student conduct, but in any part of the student development world, like going to grad school isn't enough. Having the credential isn't enough. Like, we need to be inspired by meet having really good conversations with students and going to conferences and doing our own version of continuing ed, even if it's not for the credits, on like just a small, like I don't even want to say teaser, but like a small nugget from the dissertation. This is just like a really basic example and something that's free for schools to do is I know you and I, um, I'm starting my 14th academic year in student conduct, and I know that number is small compared to yours. But even so, like we're like seasons, right? I know we both still use a script, and that the script isn't the part that, you know, reminds us, like I introduced myself, they introduce like it says that, but I know like the real thing with the script is like you and I remind ourselves. Um, you know, ask them how they are, how do they feel about today? What, you know, how is the college experience? And it's like a sandwich, right? Like the rapport building, and we do the tough stuff. And then, like, wow, like, you know, you said you're connected to such and such office. Do they know you're going through all that kind of stuff? And I say this to say, I know I can't speak for you, but I can say for me, like at every institution I've worked at where I've had a staff, where I've had hearing officers, you know, there there's always someone who who is like, but why do I need to do that? I don't want to do that. Like, whether they're like, I'm not really social, I don't want to try to get to know them, or I don't think they want to get to know me, or like they're there for business, and I want to support the business transactional. And I know you and I are both like, no, it matters, no, it matters. It matters, it matters, it matters. We've been doing this forever and we're still doing that stuff. I feel like this made the case for why things like that are so important. And so many of these suggestions, as per the dissertation, are free, right? You can be the most under-resourced school in the world. I've worked at some very, very, very under-resourced institutions. So I know about free. So I think it's just a reminder like whether you're new in the field, whether you're old in the field, like that Maslow, and that's on the dissertation, but Maslow's basic hierarchy of needs, making people feel seen, making them feel heard. Like, no matter what kind of college you're at, a community college, it's very open enrollment, a selective institution like an Ivy, like those things of like treating people like people, the back to basics. Like we're not diving into like, so are you drinking? Like that stuff matters so much. It will always matter. And with the enrollment clip and everything, like it matters even more.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

And uh every step of the process, every step requires that same analysis is what I walked away with. And um, the before and the after part are just as important as what happens in the meeting with the student, just making sure we have meetings with students. I feel like we're giving some secrets away here. So again, I would love more people to join our conversation on July 16th for the just desserts and dissertations book club.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Small thing that I think needs to be said.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

If anyone's like, well, of course they're happy about it. There were great interviews, and you must have talked to people who liked conduct. Spoiler alert, there there is a mix. Not every student had good experiences. They didn't. So I feel like, and I said this on my defense, um, I think the most important stories we tell are actually those whose experience needs an improvement. So um, this is not just feel good. You're not gonna read it and say, oh, we're not having all these feel goods at my school. Like, this isn't making me feel it's realistic. There, there's there's good experiences and there's, you know, experiences that can be approved upon, just like on all of our campuses.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

When I read those stories uh and those students' quotes, you know, like you start picturing some of your own students that just did not feel connected, did not feel cared about, and how hard that work is, like you can tell I think there's so much work that needs to be done there. I'm sure chapter five talks quite uh I'm just predicting that uh that work with the the disengaged is it's so important. Erin, what are you most excited about now that you're finished? How are you just feeling mentally, physically since finishing?

SPEAKER_02 13:42

So I'm asked this a lot, and it's such a hard question because I'm like, I don't have a good answer. But in the interest of like authenticity, I had some life stuff that got you know put on hold. So like my younger sister had a baby, and I didn't get to meet her baby until they were a month old because I was like, I have to get through the defense, and like she understood that. So it was like great to like seven days after the defense, I was holding the baby, right? And then like I was doing edits for a week or two, and then I did my graduation, and that was really exciting. And some people know I transferred programs myself and a classmate who became close in our previous program. We transferred out together. Anyway, I was able to fly from my hudding to her hudding, where like we started together, we're ending together. And while I was visiting her on her campus, I was hosted by my friends in the conduct office. So, like some of the exciting stuff just happened, you know? And then like we had our graduation at the college I work at, and like that was exciting. And now it's summer, and I'm hoping, you know, I'm getting back. I was always I've always been a big big reader, but now I have time to read a little more. Trying to get back into like the gym and eight hours of sleep. Like this basic need, self-care stuff is so important. And um, visiting some friends from college throughout the summer, like things like that. Like, I really want to take it slow this semester. Like when people are like, what are you gonna write next? What are you gonna research next? Like, I need a break. I will definitely apply to present this at the at the ASCA annual conference. Um, but I I just want to get back to being a normal person as in someone with a job, not someone who has a job and is full-time in school and has all the other things. Like, I'm I'm exploring taking it slow, normalcy, self-care. I I really mean that.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

You deserve that. I have a couple things I wanted to make sure. This might feel a little disjointed, but I wanted to make sure I said I wanted to dispel any myths about how reading scholarship is, you know, boring or confusing. Your work is easy to read and uh it really feels compelling to me as I read it, and I hope others would. The other thing is I know we have folks that also have done that gauntlet that you're talking about of the scholarly work, and we want to make this book club a club that goes on. And so if you have a dissertation out there that you'd like us to consider for the book club, I hope that you'll uh contact Ms. Behavior so that we could consider it because we all this hard work, we need to make our field better. And I think it starts with the scholarship.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

And just a quick thing with what Colette said, I I completely agree. It's not boring. How I knew I was really ready was I couldn't stop reading people's dissertations and then looking up who who they had cited and like wanting to know more and add more and um a fun fact about me is um one of my primary hobbies is reading dissertations for fun. So I think I read 39 or 40 this academic year. So if that doesn't tell you they're not boring, I don't know what does.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

You know, uh, I with Kurt not here, I feel like I have to speak for him. The most exciting part of reading dissertations for him is going straight to the bibliography at the end or the work cited to see, like, oh, what else can I read? And I love that.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yes, it's it's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah. Once in a while you see a name, you're like, I know that person, and that's just sort of like a fame adjacent feeling.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Totally. I had six or seven people I cited who are on my defense, and I don't want to say that they're not famous scholars. I don't want to diminish their work. They're people I personally know. Like it wasn't like Terrell Strayhorn, the sense of belonging theory person. Like he was not on, right? But like several, you know, ASCA folks I've looked up to for many, many years. Um, the dean of students, uh, my undergrad, things like that, like six or seven people I cited were on, and like what a full circle moment I've looked up to professionally and academically forever. And your work actually influenced mine, and you chose to come and hear me talk about that. I mean, it's just I don't know. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I'm such a fangirl of uh Valerie Glassman that when I saw her at the defense, like, oh my gosh, I'm in the same Zoom room.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, she she was on my committee. So also a fangirl, and also like, wow, yeah, to have someone like that on your committee. And the it's just so funny. My current supervisor, his dissertation laid the groundwork for her dissertation. This is long before I'm involved with them, but he writes a dissertation. She like cold calls him during COVID or something, locked on when Zoom was brand new, picked his brain, cited his, built off of his, and then he hires me, and then she says, you know, I'll be on your committee, and just, you know, they're on the Zoom together. Isn't that so cool?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Call like total full circle. Really, really universe working its magic. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

All right, Aaron. I feel like I'm taking away from some of your summertime, but uh, I just wanted to make sure we got you on. We've been talking about it for a while, waiting for you to defend so we could get our hands on you.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Thank you so much for your support. You definitely are one of the friends listed in the dedication section, which you must know by now from reading it. But our our student conduct colleagues carried me through. Like, I feel like people lifted me in the air and carried me, literally. It was very hard. Um, and you were one of those people, and I'm just so thankful that our field has you as a cheerleader.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Likewise, my friend. It's a good family to be in, and you are my conduct sister. All right, listeners, sign up, and we hope to see you on July 16th. Ms. Behavior is written and produced by Colette Shaw and Kurt Doan. Theme music was written and performed by Kevin McLeod from NCompotech.com. You can contact Ms. Behavior at Ms. BehaviorCollege at gmail.com. That's MSBhavior College at gmail.com.